"Ancient ukry" - cov poj koob yawm txwv ntawm Germans los yog Slavic chaw npe ntawm Prussia

2024 Tus sau: Seth Attwood | [email protected]. Kawg hloov kho: 2023-12-16 16:06

HNUB QUB KAJ NTUG NTAWM LUB EDGE (luv luv)

Tsis pub dhau lub xyoo pua thib ob BC, thaj av nyob ib puag ncig ntawm lub nroog niaj hnub ntawm Pionersky (yav tas los Neukuren) tau nyob los ntawm pab pawg neeg ntawm Prussians thaum ub.

Cov cheeb tsam no tshwj xeeb tshaj yog hwm los ntawm Prussians, cov pov thawj nyob ntawm no, thiab faus mounds tau tsa. Nyob rau hauv cov chaw no, cov ntoo qhib dawb ceev tau loj hlob, dunes dawb huv thiab qhov chaw nyob, uas yog qhov tseem ceeb tshwj xeeb rau kev coj noj coj ua thiab kev ntseeg ntawm Prussians.

Nyob rau hauv 1990, nyob rau yav qab teb sab hnub tuaj ntawm lub nroog ntawm Pionersky, nyob rau hauv lub cheeb tsam ntawm Mount Giants, ib tug sanctuary twb nrhiav tau yos rov qab mus rau lub thib ob txhiab xyoo BC, uas muaj cov khoom tshwj xeeb los ntawm Zhutsevo kab lis kev cai.

Kev sib hais haum pib vam meej raws li lub hiav txwv chaw so thaum pib ntawm lub thib peb thib peb ntawm xyoo pua 19th. Xyoo 1837, tus tub lag luam Karl Douglas, uas yav tas los koom nrog kev lag luam rho tawm ntawm amber, txaus siab rau lub ntuj thiab huab cua ntawm Neukuren thiab nrhiav tau ib lub chaw so ntawm no.

Tom qab qhov kev tshwm sim no, Neikuren tau raug tshaj tawm tias yog lub chaw so thiab tau los ua tsev neeg cov hnub so, nto moo rau nws cov chaw kho mob balneological. Xyoo 1849, thawj lub tsev so tsim los ntawm Lieutenant Gebauer tau qhib hauv Neukuren.

Pob zeb ntawm Lies (nyob ze ntawm Pionersk, qhov chaw ntawm lub tuam tsev pagan qub)

Lus dab neeg ntawm lub pob zeb ntawm dag:

Cov lus dab neeg tau hais tias tus neeg nyob hauv kev dag yuav tsis tuaj yeem hla lub Pob Zeb no (kev coj ncaj ncees ntawm paganism, txawm li cas los xij..)

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Feem ntau, qhov no yog cov ntaub ntawv "los ntawm qhov chaw", thiab tam sim no kev tshawb nrhiav blog sau + xaiv qhov qub, German Duab, hom tsis-populated point ntawm 19-20th centuries "bottling"

Ua tib zoo saib rau daim duab (ntawm ib puas xyoo dhau los) nyob rau sab saum toj sab laug yog lub npe ntawm lub nroog hauv German / German / Latin qhov tseeb.. Thiab lub npe hais tias - NEOKUREN.. Peb txhua tus paub tias NEO yog tshiab.. Qhov tseeb yog hais tias neo, tshiab, tshiab - NEU suab zoo li NOYA hauv German. Li no - Tshiab.. Tshiab dab tsi? Peb nyeem ntxiv, thiab.. Nyob rau hauv txoj cai, cov lus teb tam sim ntawd "los" rau kuv, tab sis kuv tau txais rau hauv Yandex - "tus neeg txhais lus" thiab qhov ntawd yog qhov nws txhais - tus tshiab kühren..

Ntawd yog - thiab Yandex tsis paub tias kukhren-kuren yog dab tsi.. Qhov tseeb, lo lus yog SMOK.. TSHIAB SMOKER.. CHICKEN yog dab tsi?

Peb saib hauv phau ntawv txhais lus - "kurens hu ua flimsy vaj nyob ze ntawm lub hiav txwv" Taak, thiab nyob qhov twg lub nroog nws tus kheej? Yog lawm - ntawm lub hiav txwv xiav heev, uas yog, lub Varangian, tam sim no lub Baltic … uas yog, NEO / NOY-KUREN / KUREN yog tsis muaj dab tsi ntau tshaj ib tug NEW CITY, tab sis tsuas yog NOVGOROD uas yog tag nrho cov thoob lub ntiaj teb no..(tib lub Naples, Neustadt, thiab lwm yam. n) Txawm hais tias yuav tsum tau ua kom muaj kev tshwj tseg tias qhov no tsis yog lub nroog tab sis yog ib lub zos, kev sib haum xeeb … lub zos tshiab (ntawm hiav txwv)

Tseem, ntawm chav kawm, KUREN (hauv Cossacks) yog chav tsev, chav sib ntaus sib tua, nws tsuas yog lub tsev pheeb suab, lub tsev pheeb suab, lub tsev pheeb suab ib ntus, tab sis lub ntsiab lus yog qhov no yog Slavism nyob rau hauv txhua rooj plaub! Nws yog ib qho tseem ceeb uas lo lus yog txuam nrog lub npe ntawm qhov chaw nyob ntawm cov neeg, los yog nrog cov neeg lawv tus kheej … Thiab yog li ntawd, tag nrho cov cheeb tsam ntawm Kaliningrad / Keniksberg, uas tau kov yeej los ntawm Red Army (qhov tseeb, los ntawm. cov Russians ntawm lub xyoo pua 20th) thaum Tsov Rog Thoob Ntiaj Teb thib Ob, tsis tau kov yeej, tab sis RECEIVED. vim qhov no yog peb lub tebchaws Rus, thaj av ntawm Rus (Prussia)

Tsis tas li ntawd, lub npe yog ancient Slavic, ntawm lub sij hawm thaum lub Slavs lawv tus kheej tsis yog li ntawd nruj nreem muab faib mus rau hauv subgroups (Rus, ukry, Belarusians, thiab lwm yam) Yog li ntawd, lawv muaj ib hom lus nyob rau hauv niaj hnub Ukrainian, lo lus "Tshiab" suab. zoo li "Noviy" - qhov no yog li cas lo lus no suab nyob rau hauv ancient sij hawm (koj yeej tsis paub dialects nyob rau hauv tej yam lus) Li no lub Germanic - NOY yog tib yam li TSHIAB..

Tej zaum qhov chaw hu ua antiquity (kwv yees li 1000 xyoo dhau los) "NEW KUREN" - thiab tam sim no NOYIKUREN (nrog rau ntev Y, tsis muaj B) tseem tshuav ntawm nws. rau qhov teeb meem (vim cov Slavs) - tsis muaj lus nug!

Thiab qhov no ib zaug ua pov thawj tias cov pab pawg neeg German tau mus los ntawm kev sib xyaw ntawm Turks nrog Slavs.. Lub npe German nws tus kheej suab tag nrho hauv Turkic - Neikuren.. Baikonur (piv txwv li) - feem ntau yog ib hom lus !!! Tsis tas li ntawd, nyob rau hauv txoj kev xav, nws yog ib qho tsim nyog yuav tsum txav mus rau qhov txuas - Cossacks-Kazakhs (ib lo lus) ntawm Cossacks thiab Turkic haiv neeg, muaj zog sib xws ntawm ntau cov lus thiab cov ntsiab lus, tab sis qhov no yog ib lub ntsiab lus.

Kuv xav hais ntxiv tias lub npe heev PRUSSIA tsuas yog RUSSIA xwb, RUSSIA (raws li Europeans sau) RUSSIA.. Lawv kuj sau lo lus RUSSIA li RUSSIA/RUSSIA.. Tabsis peb thiaj li hais tias RUSSIA li RUSSIA.. Yog li ntawd, PRUSSIA / PRUSSIA yuav yog P / RUSSIA.. Muaj ib tug heev nthuav version ntawm lub hauv paus chiv keeb ntawm lub npe no: Lub Neman River nyob rau hauv ib co qub maps yog xaiv raws li "RUSS", Rus. Yog li ntawd, cov av raws tus dej hu ua PORUSIE (IN RUSSIA). Los ntawm kev sib piv, Pomorie (los ntawm hiav txwv) Labe (los ntawm Labe) thiab lwm yam. PRUSSIA yog BAND.

Tsab ntawv Pe yog dab tsi? Zoo, muaj ntau yam versions - Polabskaya Rus (qhov dej nyab ntawm Laba River) Pomor Rus, Kuv tsis paub … Feem ntau, lawv tsuas yog ntxiv tsab ntawv Pe thiab qhov ntawd yog nws (qhov tseem ceeb tsis yog Russia) Txawm hais tias Prussia yog Russia thiab Lavxias teb sab neeg nyob rau ntawd (qhov no tuaj yeem pom los ntawm cov npe hauv av) thiab lawv tuaj yeem hais tau ib hom lus (raws li tam sim no hauv Russia)

Nws muaj peev xwm hais tias ntawm no tsim cov Germans raws li ib tug neeg yuav maj mam coj qhov chaw, los ntawm ib tug sib tov ntawm Slavs thiab Turks, thaum nyob rau hauv no ib ncig ntawm lub sij hawm ntev (raws li VA Chudinov version) Tib yam yog nrog lawv cov lus. Ntxiv mus, qhov no yog kuv version - qhov twg cov Slavs ploj mus thiab qhov twg cov Germans tuaj? Yog, tawm ntawm nowhere.. Los ntawm no thiab muaj cov, ntawm no thiab cov laug, cov Slavs thiab Turks maj degenerated rau Germans.

Qhov tseeb, tib yam uas tau tshwm sim nrog Etruscans - ib rau ib qho! Tsuas yog muaj cov Slavs degenerated rau hauv Italians, thiab nyob rau hauv Spain rau cov neeg Mev - thiab kuv tsis kidding! Koj tuaj yeem luag - tab sis mloog cov suab paj nruag Spanish - nws yog 50X50 kev sib xyaw ntawm Arabic thiab Slavic.

Thiab lub thiaj li hu ua "Ancient Prussians" nyob rau hauv lub MODERN official h / sTory, tsis muaj lwm yam tshaj li cov neeg Lavxias teb sab zoo tib yam, uas peb muaj ib tug dime ib lub kaum os.. Qhov no yeej tseem zoo li "kub ukry" uas "dug lub Dub hiav txwv. ".. Tam sim no ancient Prussians khawb lub hiav txwv Varayazhskoe (raws li lub Baltic twb hu ua yav tas los), qhov no yog yuav ua li cas nws hloov tawm, raws li ib yam ntawm cov logic.

Thiab los ntawm txoj kev, txoj cai muaj (nrog ib tug trailer) lub npe ntawm Biblical Nau-a "tua" … Tswv Yexus tsis yog ib lub npe, tab sis yog ib tug TITLE (Tus Txhiv Dim, Greek) Thiab tseem muaj ntau ntawm no (thaum lub lub npe, tus cwj pwm ntawm tus cwj pwm tau dhau los ua lub npe) Kuv tsis nco qab tam sim ntawd.

Kuv xav txog yuav ua li cas ib pawg sculptors ntawm phau Vajlugkub project zaum thiab invented lub npe rau cov cim, xaiv los ntawm txawv hom lus (… thiab yog li ntawd tsis muaj leej twg yuav tau twv..)

Tseem muaj tus thawj tswj hwm zais cia ntawm peb cov neeg nyob hauv (daim duab hauv qab no) Vim li cas tsis pub leejtwg paub? Vim tias kuv hnov txog thawj zaug:-)) lawv tsis tshua hais txog nws (txhua tus paub Zavidovo, piv txwv li) Ntxiv mus, txij li thaum kuv nyob ze rau Zavidovo, thiab txawm tias qee qhov ua haujlwm nyob ntawd..

Thiab tam sim no kuv tau tsiv mus nyob ze rau lwm tus thawj tswj hwm, hauv Pionersky / Novy Kuren, tam sim no kuv nyob hauv cov chaw no

Hauv qab no yog daim duab niaj hnub - hauv cheeb tsam muaj ntau ntau cov German paving pob zeb yav dhau los thiab xyoo pua ua ntej kawg, nws tseem ua haujlwm! Peb cov kwv tij Germanic (cov xeeb ntxwv ntawm peb cov poj koob yawm txwv) paub yuav ua li cas txoj kev (lawv tseem tsis tau hnov qab yuav ua li cas!) tej zaum muaj ib co subtleties ntawm txoj hauj lwm, tau kawg) Ntawd yog, txhua lub cib, qhov tseeb, ib daim duab plaub. tsav mus rau hauv av.. Yog li ntawd, xws li ib txoj kev nyob rau ib puas los yog ntau tshaj xyoo, "txawm" hnyav tsheb yog tsav raws nws.

PS Kuv ntseeg tias tsis muaj qhov xwm txheej hauv Germanization ntawm cov chaw no - cov Slavs thiab Aryans tau tso ntau cov neeg "sib xyaw" hauv ntiaj teb tias qhov no yog qhov tseeb rau cov neeg uas koom nrog ntawm no (hauv thaj av Midgard) lub neej zoo li feem ntau. … ib tug neeg npaj - tsis muaj kev tsis ntseeg txog nws (tsawg kawg rau kuv)

Feem ntau yuav, thiab tejzaum nws, cov Slavs ua ntawm no cov neeg txoj kev ua hauj lwm, ua ke nrog tus so ntawm cov neeg koom nyob rau hauv lub mega-sim (raws li lub ntsiab khoom xyaw) Thiab Russia nws tus kheej yog lub tsev ntawm ntau haiv neeg, txog rau tam sim no (yog, yog li ntawd. Qee zaum tsis muaj chaw rau lawv) Qhov no yog peb qhov kev sib koom nyuaj, hauv kev ua tiav tag nrho.

Nyob rau hauv dav dav, qhov no yog protogenesis - lub nyob mus ib txhis txav ntawm lub neej, ib tug tas mus li kev hloov nyob rau hauv cov ntaub ntawv ntawm nws manifestation.. Dab tsi tsis ua raws li lub zog - tuag tawm.. Lub neej muaj peev xwm ncav cuag kev sib nrig sib to taub tsuas yog nrog cov nyob, thiab dab tsi yuav pab tau. ua lwm txoj hauv kev rau lub neej? Tsuas yog qhov tsis muaj xws li.

=============== THIAB "NTAWM POSOSHOK" ========

Tsis tas li ntawd, ib tug repost ntawm heev nthuav cov ntaub ntawv nyob rau hauv lub toponymy ntawm cheeb tsam:

Raws li cov pov thawj ntawm cov keeb kwm niaj hnub no, txij li thaum xaus ntawm lub xyoo pua 6th mus rau nruab nrab ntawm lub xyoo pua 13th AD. sab hnub tuaj, sab qaum teb thiab sab qaum teb-sab hnub poob ntawm lub teb chaws Yelemees niaj hnub no tau nyob los ntawm ib pawg loj ntawm West Slavic pab pawg neeg ntawm Lusican, Lyutichi, Bodrich, Pomoryan thiab Ruyan, uas tam sim no hu ua Polabian Slavs.

(Great Patriotic War, Neikuren puam)

Cov pab pawg no, raws li cov kws sau keeb kwm orthodox, nyob rau hauv ib nrab ntawm lub xyoo pua 6th tau hloov "Germanic" pab pawg neeg ntawm Lombards, Rugs, Lugians, Hizobrads, Varins, Veletes thiab lwm tus neeg uas nyob ntawm no thaum ub. Txawm li cas los xij, ntau tus kws tshawb fawb tau sib cav tias muaj "kev sib txuam zoo kawg nkaus ntawm cov npe ntawm pawg neeg Polabian, Pomor thiab lwm cov Western Slavs nrog cov npe haiv neeg qub tshaj plaws ntawm kev tig ntawm thawj centuries ntawm peb lub sijhawm, paub hauv thaj chaw no," hais hauv Roman qhov chaw.

Nyob rau hauv tag nrho, muaj txog kaum tsib xws li khub, coinciding ancient thiab medieval Slavic npe ntawm pab pawg neeg uas nyob rau hauv lub cheeb tsam no. Qhov no txhais tau hais tias cov Slavs nyob hauv lub teb chaws Yelemees, tsawg kawg los ntawm cov thawj ib-paus xyoo.

Lawv nyob ib thaj chaw loj ntawm lub qhov ncauj ntawm tus dej. Laba (Elba) thiab nws txoj kev r. Sala (Zale) nyob rau sab hnub poob, ua ntej tus dej. Odra (Vodra, Oder) nyob rau sab hnub tuaj, los ntawm Ore Toj siab (nyob ciam teb nrog Czech koom pheej) nyob rau sab qab teb thiab mus rau lub hiav txwv Baltic nyob rau sab qaum teb. Yog li, thaj av ntawm Polabian Slavs npog tsawg kawg ib feem peb ntawm lub xeev German niaj hnub. Cov Polabian Slavs koom ua ke hauv peb pawg neeg sib koom ua ke: Lugichans, Lyutichi (Velety lossis Viltsy) thiab Bodrici (txhawb, Rarog lossis Rereki).

Lawv kuj muaj feem cuam tshuam nrog cov pab pawg Pomor, uas nyob rau sab qab teb ntug dej hiav txwv ntawm Baltic Hiav Txwv, kwv yees li ntawm lub qhov ncauj ntawm Odra mus rau lub qhov ncauj ntawm Vistula, thiab nyob rau sab qab teb raws tus dej Notech, ciam teb rau cov pab pawg neeg Polish.

(saib daim duab qhia kev daws teeb meem zoo -

Qhov tseeb tias cov neeg Slavic ntev dhau los nyob hauv lub tebchaws Yelemes yog pov thawj los ntawm ntau lub npe (los ntawm topos - "qhov chaw" thiab onoma - "lub npe, lub npe" - lub npe zoo uas qhia txog lub npe ntawm thaj chaw khoom), uas lawv tau tso tseg. Piv txwv li, - Berlin, Schwerin, Vitzin, Devin, Alt-Teterin, Karpin. Qhov xaus "-hauv" hauv Slavic chaw npe yog kev ntxhov siab.

- Lausitz (Lusatia), Chemnitz, Dobranits (Dobranets), Doberyushts (Dobroshitsy), Dobershau (Dobrush).

- Lyubov, Teterov, Guestrov, Lyutov, Goltsov, Mirov, Burov.

- Lubenau, Schrandau, Torgau.

Cov npe nrov tshaj plaws ntawm Slavic keeb kwm yog:

Lub nroog Chemnitz - (German Chemnitz, v.-luzh. Kamjenica) yog lub npe tom qab tus dej me Chemnitz, ib tug tributary ntawm tus dej Zwickauer Mulde. Lo lus "chemnitz" nws tus kheej los ntawm "kamjenica" los ntawm cov lus ntawm Lusatian Serbs thiab txhais tau tias "koob pob zeb lossis dej".

Lub nroog Lausitz (German Lausitz, v.-puddle. Luzhitsa), Ameslikas - "swampy av". Luzhitsa yog thaj tsam keeb kwm ntawm lub teb chaws Yelemees, uas cov neeg Slavic ntawm Luzhitsa tseem nyob.

Lub nroog Lubeck (German Lubeck, v.-puddle. Lubitz). Founded tsis deb ntawm Ljubice fortress ntawm Wagra.

Lub nroog Rostock (German Rostock, v. Luzh. Rostock) txhais tau hais tias ib qho chaw uas cov dej sib txawv ntawm cov lus qhia.

Lub nroog Ratzeburg (lub Slavic chaw nyob ntawm Ratibor) yog thawj zaug hais nyob rau hauv cov ntaub ntawv ntawm German huab tais Henry IV nyob rau hauv 1062 li Racesburg. Lub npe los ntawm lub npe ntawm tus txhawb siab tus huab tais Ratibor (abbreviated li Ratse).

Lub nroog Prenzlau (German Prenzlau, v.-puddle. Prenzlav).

Lub nroog Zossen (German Zossen, Slavic Pines).

Lub nroog ntawm Brandenburg (German Brandenburg. Slav. Branibor).

Lub nroog Mecklenburg - yav tas los hu ua Rarog (Rerik), tom qab - Mikulin Bor.

Lub nroog Oldenburg yog Slavic Starograd (Starigard).

Lub nroog ntawm Demmin - Dymin.

Lub nroog Schwerin yog Bodrich Zverin.

Lub nroog ntawm Dresden - Drozdyany.

Leipzig - Lipsk, Lipetsk.

Lub nroog Breslau - Breslau.

Lub nroog Roslau - Rusislava.

Lub nroog ntawm Prilwitz - Prilebitsa.

Lub nroog ntawm Regensburg - Rezno.

Lub nroog Meissen - Mishneau.

Lub nroog ntawm Merseburg - Mezhibor.

Thiab cov npe qub ntawm cov nroog German niaj hnub no tsis xav tau kev piav qhia: Lubeck, Bremen, Weiden, Lubben, Torgau, Kluz, Ribnitz, Karov, Teterov, Malkhin, Mirov, Rossov, Kiritz, Beskov, Kamenz, Lebau, Sebnitz, thiab lwm yam., lwm.

Lub npe Slavic chaw tau nthuav dav hauv cov xeev niaj hnub no ntawm lub teb chaws Yelemees: Lower Saxony - thaj chaw sab hnub tuaj ntawm Hamburg, lub npe hu ua "Wendland", sab hnub tuaj ib nrab ntawm lub xeev Schleswig-Holstein, thoob plaws Mecklenburg - Vorpommern, Brandenburg, Saxony thiab Saxony Anhalt, Thuringia Berlin, Bavaria thiab …

(Neikuren, lithograph 1780)

Nyob rau hauv lub xyoo pua puv 19, tus kws tshawb fawb Czech A. V. Schember, pom 1000 Slavic npe ntawm cov dej ntws, roob, hav zoov, tiaj thiab cov nroog nyob rau hauv daim ntawv qhia ntawm Austria. Nws luam tawm cov txiaj ntsig ntawm nws txoj kev tshawb fawb hauv phau ntawv "Zapadni Slovane v praveku" (1860). Nws yog qhov tsim nyog los ntxiv ntawm no tias Austrian lub nroog Vienna yog Slavic Windebozh, thiab lub nroog Zwetl yog Svetla. Austria nws tus kheej tau hu ua tus thawj tswj hwm ntawm Ostria ua ntej Germanization! Hmoov tsis zoo, tam sim no, sau cov ntaub ntawv hais txog lub neej nyob deb ntawm Western Slavs tsuas yog muaj nyob rau hauv cov chaw uas tau sau los ntawm German Christian sau.

… Lub yeeb koob yog kaum npaug ntau dua peb Saxony, yog tias peb suav nrog Czechs thiab Poles nyob rau sab nraud ntawm Odra, uas tsis txawv ntawm cov neeg nyob hauv Slavia txawm nyob rau hauv lawv qhov tsos lossis lus … Muaj muaj ntau haiv neeg Slavic. Ntawm lawv yog cov feem ntau sab hnub poob Wagras, nyob ntawm ciam teb nrog Trans-Albing. Lawv lub nroog, dag ntawm hiav txwv, Oldenburg (Stargrad).

Qhov no yog ua raws li cov neeg txhawb nqa, uas tam sim no hu ua reregs, thiab lawv lub nroog yog Magnopolis (Velehrad). Nyob rau sab hnub tuaj ntawm peb (los ntawm Hamburg) nyob Polabini (Polaby), uas nws lub nroog hu ua Ratsisburg (Ratibor). Hauv qab lawv yog lingons (av nplaum) thiab warabs. Tsis tas li ntawd, cov hizans thiab los ntawm Penyans ua raws, uas tau sib cais los ntawm Dolechans thiab ratars los ntawm Pena River thiab lub nroog Dymin.

Muaj qhov txwv ntawm Hamburg diocese. Khizhan thiab dhau-Penyans nyob rau sab qaum teb ntawm Pena River, Dolenchans thiab Ratari - mus rau sab qab teb. Vim lawv txoj kev ua siab loj, plaub haiv neeg no hu ua Wilts, lossis Lyutichi. Kuj tseem muaj lwm pab pawg neeg Slavic uas nyob nruab nrab ntawm Labe thiab Odra (Elbe thiab Oder)” (Adam of Bremen - North German chronicler, canon and scholastic, “Kev ua ntawm cov pov thawj ntawm lub Koom Txoos Hamburg” (c. 1066)).

(qhov chaw -

Nws tseem yog ib qho tsim nyog los kov cov keeb kwm ntawm Keniksberg (nyob rau hauv cov xwm txheej ntawm lub peev) Prussia feem ntau, nws yog lub xeev cov teb chaws Europe nyob rau hauv lub xyoo pua 18th.

PRUSSIA (19th century map)

(hauv kev nthuav dav ntxiv - thiab tsis txhob hnov qab tias qhov no yog ib zaj dab neeg, nws yuav tsum tau nyeem los ntawm kev txheeb xyuas thiab sib piv thiab tsis txhob ntseeg qhov muag tsis pom)